Tuesday, August 24, 2010

Repentance

Hi again, here is a fairly long article I wrote a while back to try to put in one place my understanding of repentance and how it fits in the different parts of the New Testament. I realize to most of you it will sound very familiar, since it is based a lot on what Zane Hodges wrote on the same subject. I didn't go into very much here about why I changed my mind about my previous belief that repentance refers only to a change of mind and is basically synonymous with faith. If there is interest in that, maybe I will write something about that next, we'll see. Read this when you have time and let me know what you think:

Repentance
One of the greatest causes of confusion about eternal salvation is the misunderstanding about how repentance relates to it. What exactly is repentance and how is it related to salvation? Is a person saved by faith alone or by faith and repentance? Are faith and repentance essentially the same thing or are they different?
The Bible states clearly in many places that people are saved simply by faith in Jesus Christ. So, if repentance speaks of turning from sin, as most scholars agree that it does, it cannot be a condition for eternal salvation. If it was, then all the passages which speak of being saved by believing in Jesus would be dishonest or at least inadequate, and the statements that salvation is received as a free gift, without works, would lose all meaning. Though some have gotten around this difficulty by saying that repentance only refers to a change of mind and is basically synonymous with faith, this definition of repentance is difficult to maintain in many of the usages of the word in the New Testament.

Repentance Defined
The Greek word which is translated "repent" is metanoeo, which is constructed from the words "after" and "mind." It signifies a change of mind, but as all biblical Greek dictionaries point out, its range of meaning carries more than simply the idea of changing one's mind, but also signifies an inward change or a turning from something. This is clear in verses like Rev. 9:21, where it says that people did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. Clearly the emphasis there is not simply that people wouldn't change their minds, but also that they would not turn away from doing those sins.
There are a few places in scripture where the word repent is used to refer to turning from something other than sin or specific sins (Heb. 6:1, Heb. 12:17), but in almost all cases the idea of turning from sin fits the context well. However, none of these cases are in places which are clearly talking about eternal salvation. It is extremely significant that the gospel of John, which was expressly written to lead people to believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life (John 20:30-31), does not use either the noun metanoia or the verb metanoeo even once. The apostle John was apparently an apostle of John the Baptist and certainly heard both him and the Lord Jesus preach repentance. He also used the word frequently in the book of Revelation, so it is clear that he understood the word and considered repentance important, but the fact that he did not mention it at all when speaking of eternal life leads to the logical conclusion that he did not consider it a prerequisite for eternal life.
Not only did the apostle John not mention repentance in connection with eternal salvation, the apostle Paul only used the noun or verb forms of the word five times in all of his epistles, and never in a section dealing with justification. The letter to the Galatians, written to defend the true gospel against false teaching, does not contain even one reference to repentance. The letter to the Ephesians, likewise, contains no reference to repentance. In the letter to the Romans, which is the most fully-developed written record of what Paul taught, the word repentance only occurs once, and that in chapter 2 (Rom. 2:4), where Paul is talking about the principles of God's judgment, not about justification. This also leads us to the clear conclusion that repentance cannot be a condition for justification. Justification and eternal life are received simultaneously through faith in Christ alone.
If repentance does normally signify turning from sins, and it is not a requirement for eternal life, what then does it accomplish? For a believer who is walking in sin, repentance restores him to fellowship with God and prevents God from having to bring discipline into his life. For an unbeliever, repentance may also prevent God's judgment in his life and should put him in a place where he is ready to listen to the message of eternal life through faith in Christ. In the following sections, we will look briefly at the significance of repentance in the gospels, the book of Acts, the epistles, and Revelation.

Repentance in the Gospels
Both John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus preached repentance to the nation of Israel. In Mark 1:15, Jesus is recorded as saying, "Repent, and believe in the gospel." The gospel of which Jesus was speaking in this context, was the good news that the kingdom of heaven was at hand (Matt. 4:17). The people of Israel needed to turn from their sins, including the sins of indifference and self-righteousness, because the long-awaited time when God would send His chosen King to rule on earth had come. In these verses, and in many places in the synoptic gospels where repentance is mentioned, the focus is not on eternal salvation, but on the need for the people of Israel to be prepared to receive their King. Throughout the synoptic gospels it is clear that both repentance and faith on a national scale were prerequisite to Israel receiving the expected kingdom. Certainly the kind of spiritual "waking up" involved in repentance could and should have lead people to listen to the good news of eternal life through faith in Jesus the Messiah, but it was not the repentance in and of itself that brought eternal life.
When John the Baptist preached "a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4), it was within this context of preparing the nation of Israel to receive her King. As stated above, the nation of Israel needed to turn from their sins in order to be ready to receive the kingdom. Repentance would bring forgiveness, and baptism was a sign of that repentance. The context, however, should lead us to view this forgiveness not as the entrance to eternal salvation, but as the temporal forgiveness needed by an Israelite who was out of covenant with God. John was a prophet much like those in the Old Testament, and the message he preached was much like ones we can read throughout the Old Testament. For example, in Isaiah 1:16-18, God spoke through Isaiah and told the people to cease to do evil and learn to do good, with the result that though their sins were like scarlet, they would be white as snow. In Jeremaiah 36:3, the Lord said that if Judah would turn from their evil ways, He would forgive their sins. This forgiveness spoken of in the Old Testament was obviously not an entrance into eternal salvation by faith. It was a temporal forgiveness which averted God's temporal wrath, and it was tied to repentance, or turning away from sin. The forgiveness John preached was essentially the same.
In Mark 2:17, when Jesus said "I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance," He was answering the question of why He associated with sinners. If part of His purpose was to prepare Israel for the kingdom by preaching repentance, as mentioned in Mark 1:15, it should have been obvious that He would associate with sinners, because it is not the righteous, but sinners, who need to repent. Jesus was not of course saying that the Pharisees who were challenging Him were righteous, but simply that because of His purpose, it should have been obvious that He would associate with sinners.
The Lord Jesus came to earth to die as a sacrifice for our sins and to offer eternal life through faith in Him, but He also came in fulfillment of the promises to Israel and offered the long-awaited kingdom to them. This offer of the kingdom is largely in focus in the synoptic gospels, which explains the frequent mention of repentance in those gospels. As previously mentioned, the gospel of John, which focuses primarily on the Lord's offer of eternal life, rather than on the offer of the kingdom to Israel, does not mention repentance at all.

Repentance in the book of Acts
As in the synoptic gospels, the idea of repentance occurs fairly frequently in the book of Acts. Sometimes Israel is being called on to repent of their sin of rejecting Jesus, and other times Gentiles are referred to as repenting or needing to repent.
Probably the most well-known verse in the book of Acts dealing with repentance is Acts 2:38, where Peter tells the crowd at Pentecost, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The clearest way to take this verse is that the hearers were being told that in order to be forgiven and to receive the Holy Spirit as the previous believers had, they needed to repent and be baptized. This is obviously a different message than "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," but the reason is that a different kind of forgiveness is in view. When those listening to Peter were cut to the heart and said in verse 37, "What shall we do?" it is clear that they had come to believe that Jesus was indeed who He claimed to be, the promised Savior and giver of eternal life. So as far as receiving eternal salvation, most of those who accepted what Peter was saying probably believed and received eternal life at that time, before Peter told them to repent and be baptized.
The reason the people asked what they should do is that they realized the horror of what they had done in rejecting the Son of God and having Him crucified. No doubt they also recognized the judgment that would come on the nation from God for doing that. That explains their question and Peter's answer, as well as why it says in verse 40 that Peter was exhorting them to be saved "from that perverse generation." That generation of Israel would be punished by God for their rejection of Jesus, but if a person wanted to be forgiven (put in a place of harmony with God)and saved out of that generation so that he would not be punished with it, he needed to turn from his sin of rejecting Jesus and publicly show that through baptism. As with John's baptism in the gospels, the issue here seems to be temporal rather than eternal forgiveness. Once again Israelites who were out of fellowship with God were being called on to return to fellowship through repentance and in this case baptism. For that generation of Israel, it seems that this was also the requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit. When Gentiles were saved, God gave the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ, and that pattern continues throughout the New Testament, but it seems that the generation of Israel that publicly denied Christ and cried "Crucify Him!" was required by God to publicly confess Him through baptism before receiving the Holy Spirit.
In Acts chapter 10, the story is recorded of Peter taking the gospel to Cornelius, a Roman centurion who believed in the God of Israel. Cornelius had already repented of the idolatry of his native culture and was worshipping the God of Israel as well as he knew how, but he received justification and eternal life by faith in Jesus Christ, after Peter preached to him. Later, when Peter went back to Jerusalem and reported what had happened, those who listened concluded that God had granted the Gentiles "repentance to life" (Acts 11:18). This verse is often taken as saying that repentance is a requirement for receiving eternal life, but it need not be taken in that way. It is significant that when the angel appeared to Cornelius, as recorded in chapter 10, he told Cornelius that because God had heard his prayer and remembered his alms, he was to send to Peter for a message (Acts 10:31). Then when Peter came, he said that he now knew that God accepts people of any nation who fear Him and work righteousness (Acts 10:34). Peter was apparently sent specifically to Cornelius because he was repentant and was seeking the truth. God "accepted" the sincerity of Cornelius' repentance and insured that he heard the saving message by sending Peter to him. So repentance did lead to life for Cornelius, not because he was eternally saved when he repented, but because repentance put him in a position where he was ready to hear the good news about Jesus.
Another well-known verse from the book of Acts which deals with repentance is Acts 17:30, where Paul said that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. This is set in the context of Paul's sermon at the Areopagus in Athens, a message primarily about the existence of the true God and the foolishness of idolatry. So, in the context, repentance has to do with turning from idolatry to seek the true God. In the past, God had been patient with the sin of idolatry, probably in the sense of not quickly sending temporal judgment against idolaters, but now that God the Son had come to earth as the Savior, God commanded all people to repent, or turn from the worship of idols. As in the case of Cornelius above, repenting of idolatry would prepare people to hear the good news about Jesus and believe in Him, but eternal life would not be given because of repentance, but because of faith in Christ.
One final verse verse which we will look at from the book of Acts is Acts 20:21. In this verse, Paul summarized his teaching as "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." As with the other verses we have looked at from the book of Acts, there is nothing in this verse to indicate that Paul taught repentance as a requirement for the reception of eternal life. Paul did preach repentance. Sometimes he preached it to unbelievers who were not ready to receive the good news of eternal life through Jesus Christ, but more often he preached it to those who were already believers, teaching an attitude of turning from sins to God. This message of repentance toward God was part of Paul's message of discipleship. It is a parallel thought to the Great Commission in Matt. 28:19-20, where Jesus did not tell His disciples simply to preach about eternal life through Him, but to make disciples. People receive eternal life through faith alone, but disciples are made, in part, by teaching repentance.

Repentance in the Epistles
As was mentioned previously, the Pauline epistles contain only five references to repentance, either as a noun or a verb. In none of these cases is eternal salvation in view, and in some of the occurences, it is immediately clear that believers are being referred to. For example, in 2 Cor. 7:9-10 Paul talks about his letter making the Corinthians sorry, which led to repentance. He then states that godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation. Some people have taken this as a general principle relating to eternal salvation, but this is clearly not the case. First of all, the context has to do with people who are already believers having a godly sorrow which led to repentance. Secondly, if it was dealing with eternal salvation, it would be saying that unsaved people have to have "godly sorrow" before they can be saved, which doesn't make sense at all. Godly sorrow in believers produces repentance, which leads to salvation from the destructive and deadly effects of sin.
In the general epistles, repentance is referred to only four times. One of these four occurrences, 2 Peter 3:9, is often thought of as tying repentance to eternal salvation because it contrasts repentance with perishing. As with other occurences of repentance, however, it is not necessary to take the verse in that way. There is no compelling reason not to understand "perish" as referring to physical death. The principle throughout scripture is that when man's sinfulness is ripe, God will judge it, but He is reluctant to do so because He does not want people to die prematurely. He always gives time for people to turn from their sins and thus ward off coming judgment. As He waited in the time of Noah before sending the flood (Gen. 6:3) and told Abraham He would not destroy the Canaanites until the sin of the Amorites was complete (Gen. 15:16), now too He is holding off the end-time judgments to give people a chance to repent. Compare this with Ezekiel 18:32, where it clearly states that God desires people to turn from their sins in order to preserve their lives. When God begins His end-time judgments against sinful men, referred to in the context of 2 Peter, there will be widespread death and destruction. God's patience in holding off this judgment has given many generations of people a chance to repent. The result of that repentance is a prolonged physical life, with the corresponding opportunity to believe in the Lord Jesus and receive eternal life.

Repentance in Revelation
Though the apostle John did not use either the noun or verb form of the word repent even once in the gospel of John, the verb occurs 11 times in the book of Revelation. Seven of these occurences are in the letters to the churches and clearly refer to believers needing to turn from their sinful ways. The remainder of the occurences have to do with unbelievers during the Great Tribulation, who even in the face of God's judgments, refused to turn from their sinful ways and glorify God. For example Rev. 9:20-21 says that those who survived the plagues of the four horsemen would not repent of their idolatry and their other sinful practices. Again it is clear that none of these verses have to do with the reception of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.

Conclusion
Repentance is an important topic which is spoken of many times in both the Old and New Testaments. God desires that all people, whether saved or unsaved, turn away from their sinful ways and pursue harmony with Him. Of course, for the unsaved, this does not directly result in eternal salvation, but should put them in a position where they are receptive to the good news of eternal life through Jesus. For believers, repentance from sin is essential in maintaining fellowship with God as our Father. We should not downplay the importance of repentance, but we should also not confuse it with faith in Jesus Christ, which is the only condition for receiving eternal life.

18 comments:

  1. Excellent Ken!!!!! Very clear, and I like the way you use "eternal salvation all the way through so we know what you are talking about:)

    alvin

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  2. CAN'T WAIT TO READ THIS~!!!
    :-)

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  3. Hi Ken,

    I don't have much time right now for commenting, but I'm enjoying your articles very much. It's obvious you've studied and thought these things through carefully and I'm benefitting a lot from reading it. Hope you keep posting more.

    God bless,
    Gary

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  4. Well, so far my posts have been things that I have already written, so we'll see how I do when I actually have to make time to write something new each time. But glad the things I've posted so far have been helpful.

    Ken

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  5. Hi Ken,

    I spent a lot of time today reading carefully over your article on Repentance. There is so much good stuff in there that I don't know where to begin. I think I will comment on small portions to begin with. Maybe I'll come back and comment again and again as I go through my notes that I made as I read through it... (and all positive)!!!

    First of all I want to thank you for taking the time to study the issue of repentance. I think that there is a treasure here for anyone who will open it up after prayer, examining each sentence, looking up the passages in context, and just taking the time to understand what you are saying. If anyone will do this, the Bible is going to open up in a much clearer way, and the pieces are going to all fit.

    The problem among so many Christians is that they are hesitant to examine anything that sounds different than what they have always been taught. But it's a safe place to be if you let the scriptures be your authority. The scriptures are the place that I find protection from error. So I'm not afraid to examine what anyone says. But the teaching must be understood in context, and all the pieces MUST fit. If I learn something that contradicts some other truth in the Bible, then I know that something's wrong. So I have protection, and I know that God the Holy Spirit is my teacher. He will protect me if I am truly open and honest with Him.

    This is my first comment. Now I'll get to my notes in the 2nd comment.

    Thanks so much for being an instrument for God's use,
    Diane
    :-)

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  6. 2nd comment...

    I should apologize a head of time for saying so much on this subject, but it's one that's important to me because it's opened up the Bible to me in wonderful ways. A little background....

    A number of years ago I listened to some cassette tapes of Zane Hodges teaching to a group on the subject of repentance. I remember sitting in my car with a pencil and note pad writing down almost word for word what he taught. It took many hours and days to write it all down, and then I went home and typed it all up. I was so excited at what I was learning, and past it on to others including some pastors. Later much of what I had written down came out in a book entitled.... "HARMONY WITH GOD - A Fresh Look At Repentance."

    He started out by saying that he was going to attempt to REFUTE a view that he himself once held. He said he has repented of his view of Repentance. He tells of how he grew up inside the Grace movement, and the standard view of REPENTANCE among grace people was that Repentance referred to a “change of mind,” and in connection with salvation it meant a “change of mind about Christ”-- from unbelief to belief— or from reliance upon works to reliance upon Christ for salvation. And for a very long time, right into his teaching career, he held that view. Back when he put out the first edition to "Grace In Eclipse,” there was a footnote in the back of that book giving that view. But between the first and second edition, he said he was entertaining doubts about his position. So in the second edition he left the footnote out, except for referencing Dr. Wilkin who taught that view at the time. (He too, has since changed his view.)

    Then in that second edition he maintained a stony silence on the subject of Repentance.
    As he approached his writing of “Absolutely Free” (this time developing a very distinct view of Repentance), one of his friends (a pastor) read his first draft of the book— “Absolutely Free,” ch. 12— and his advice to Zane was— “Leave this chapter out.” Zane said to his friend— “How can I address the Lordship Salvation movement and be silent about Repentance? It’s impossible. They will think that I am dodging the issue which is a major consideration in the Lordship position, and rightfully so.” He says that he is now very comfortable with the position he holds on the doctrine of Repentance.

    Ken, what you have written is in agreement with Zane's understanding as best as I can tell. I hope after everyone studies your article here, that they will also read Zane's wonderful book (a masterpiece in my opinion)... "Harmony With God."

    Here I am with my 2nd comment and haven't even touched my notes that I wanted to comment on regarding your wonderful article. I hope to do that soon if it's OK.

    (Acts 16:31) "....Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..." That's the only requirement~!!!

    Rejoicing in the ONE who alone is worthy,
    Diane
    :-)

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  7. Comment 3

    I'm actually now going to get to some questions that I marked as I read through your paper. Even though I have studied this subject in depth in the past, I find that I'm still fuzzy in some areas, and your paper has been a big help. Today I actually concentrated on a sentence at a time in order to understand and digest it. It was a good study. My questions here come from the part of your paper that deal with "Repentance in the Gospels>"*

    My questions are these.....
    Did John baptize Jews who were not YET eternally saved, but Jews who recognized that they had turned away from the God of the Bible and "LIVED their lives" opposite of how He would have them live according to the O.T. scriptures? They knew that much, but didn't yet understand that they were saved by faith alone in the Messiah.... Jesus being that Messiah (the Christ)?

    Were some of these Jews already saved but just needed to repent of their sins in order to be prepared to receive their King and the Kingdom?

    Were they identifying with John's message that they had sinned and wanted to get right with God..... not eternal salvation, but deeds (thoughts, attitudes, behavior, etc.)? They were repenting of their sins. I understand that this was NOT believers baptism, the water baptism of today.

    I know I'm not wording these questions well. Hope you can understand them.

    I have more questions, but will wait on those until after you answer these. Thanks Ken for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate you.

    Looking to His Word alone for answers,
    Diane
    :-)

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  8. Hi Diane, first in reference to "Harmony with God" by Zane Hodges, it was very helpful for me in sorting through this issue, and I would certainly recommend it to any readers as well. I actually didn't have a hard copy of it when I was thinking and studying through this issue, but was able to download chapters from Chafer Theological Seminary's web page, and I believe what I got was the whole book, though I'm not sure about that. The hard copy is on my list of books to get, which is a pretty big list since I need to replace books I didn't bring home with me from the mission field.

    Now, regarding your third comment- I don't see anywhere in the gospels that tells us whether the people John baptized were saved or unsaved people. If I am wrong on that, I would welcome any reader pointing out a reference that makes it clear. We do know that very large numbers of the people of Israel went out to John and were baptized by him (Mark 1:5), so I think because of that and because of the silence of the scriptures on that issue, it is reasonable to assume that there were both believers and unbelievers among those who were baptized by John. Both those who were already justified by faith and those who were not needed to repent in preparation for the coming of the promised King. Anyway, that's how I think of it.

    To me, the strangest thing is to think that there were probably many people who repented under the teaching of John the Baptist who then did not put their faith in Jesus. Though the one should have prepared them for the other, it was not an automatic result. I get that from contrasting Mark 1:5, which (hyperbolically) says the whole land of Israel went out to John, with John 1:11, which summarizes the response of Israel as "His own did not receive Him." Kind of weird, huh?

    Glad you've found my articles helpful, but of course don't take me too seriously. None of my thoughts are original, they're just the result of sifting through what other people have said and comparing it with scripture.

    Ken

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  9. Thank you Ken.

    Even though your thoughts are not original, I like the fact that you've thought it all through and see how the pieces fit. I know that you're not following a man (even though God used men to help you see). God's been so wonderful to bring good teachers across my path, and I thank HIM for that. I know that I have a lot to learn and much to be corrected on. You are helping me.

    I have other questions from notes I made going through your paper, but I may not get to them until later next week. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me.

    Have a wonderful Labor Day week-end with your family.

    All because of His wonderful grace,
    Diane
    :-)

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  10. Hi again Ken,

    Your article on Repentance is just so good. Thank you again for posting it here.
    Here's another thought that came to my mind as I read something you wrote. You said.....

    "The Lord Jesus came to earth to die as a sacrifice for our sins and to offer eternal life through faith in Him, but He ALSO (emphasis mine) came in fulfillment of the promises to Israel and offered the long-awaited kingdom to them."*

    My question is this. What if they would have excepted Him as their Messiah? We know that He would have had to die first. How does He offer Himself and His kingdom to the "believing Jews" at that time BEFORE He died?

    One pastor answered that question by saying they would have watched Him die lifting up holy hands (knowing the outcome). I think he probably meant by the term "holy hands" that they realized He needed to die in order for them to be able to enter in. Probably this is a question where there's no absolute answer. God knew they would not except His Son when He came. But it's just been one of those questions that linger in my mind. Thought maybe you might have a thought on that.

    (to be continued.....)

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  11. (continued from above comment.....)

    Something else that you mentioned is just SO IMPORTANT~!!! It is this very truth that I hope many will take time to think about. You said....

    "the gospel of John, which focuses primarily on the Lord's offer of eternal life, rather than on the offer of the kingdom to Israel, does not mention REPENTANCE (emphasis mine) at all."*

    This, to me, is crucial to see because the author of the Gospel of John would not leave out repentance if it were a necessary requirement for eternal life since that was the primary PURPOSE of writing that gospel.
    Yet the same author (John) DID mention it in Revelation many times. That book was written to believers who needed repentance.
    Also it was pointed out to me that John didn't mention repentance in 1 John either. WHY? That was a book on fellowship. It was explained to me that 1 John was written to believers who were walking in fellowship with Christ, but they were instructed that if they sinned they needed to CONFESS their sin in order to STAY in fellowship with God. When we walk in the light (in fellowship with God) He shows us areas of our life that are not pleasing to Him, and we need to recognize it as sin and confess it as soon as He shines the light of His truth on that sin. If we do that then we keep right on walking in fellowship with Him. We're not constantly in and out of fellowship when we respond to His light on our sin. Confession keeps us in fellowship with Him. It was explained to me that repentance was necessary when one had been continuing in a behavior that needed to be repented of. In other words, the person needed to make the decision to turn from that particular sin and walk in fellowship with Christ. I still have some questions on that, but that explanation has been helpful..... the difference between confession and repentance.

    I still have other questions that I would love to bring up here, but I don't mean to monopolize your blog. I hope others will enter in. I truly appreciate your ministry here, and want to thank you again for your insights into this subject. It brings real joy to me to discuss with other believers the issues and topics that are found in the Word of God. I love to meet other bereans who care about what God means by what He's written. Our bond here as friends is around the person of Jesus Christ, the only ONE who is worthy~!!!

    Rejoicing always in Him,
    Diane
    :-)

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  12. One more thought on the difference between repentance and confession.
    I'm thinking only of believers here.

    Repentance is necessary when we believers have been living in a way that we KNOW is not according to God's will. Repentance brings believers BACK in harmony with God and avoids or stops God's "temporal" judgment on us in this life.

    Confession is necessary when we simply do something that we know is wrong. We confess it immediately as sin to God and STAY in harmony (fellowship) with Him. It's not something that is an on-going sin that we have never confessed. On-going sins need repentance..... (a decision to turn from that sin)*

    I'm still thinking through the concept of life style sin that we believers might be caught up in, but not conscious of. For example, we may be in the habit of gossiping and complaining all the time. We don't really stop to think that we are sinning. But at some point God points it out to us. Have we been out of fellowship all that time? I don't think so. I think we are only out of fellowship when we knowingly sin against God and continue in it. But when God points it out to us that we have been sinning for a long time, I think that needs repentance and confession. But I THINK the person still has been in fellowship with God. We believers have lots of areas in our lives that we need to recognize as sin along our journey of life, and we need to repent of it.
    Perhaps someone will have some insight for me on that particular issue. I'm still thinking that through.

    Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share these thoughts. Hope others will jump in to the discussion.

    Diane
    :-)

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  13. Good points, Diane, about repentance and confession. I do think that only known sin which is persisted in breaks our fellowship with God, otherwise I think fellowship with God would be impossible, because there is so much in our lives that isn't like Christ. God reveals things to us little by little, and we are responsible to "walk in the light" with what we know.

    As far as the question of what would have happened if Israel as a nation had repented and believed in Christ, I think we can simply say that though Christ had to die for sin, the offer of the kingdom to Israel was genuine. God knows not only what will happen, but what could have happened as well (see, for instance, Matt. 11:23), so He knows how it could have all worked out, but we don't. That is enough to satisfy me.

    By the way, I realized it's time to put another post up soon, but I think I'll wait a few more days on this one, then put up a few other thoughts about repentance.

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  14. This is something I sent Diane, and Gary on if Jesus had set up His Kingdom. Just some thoughts.

    Once it was established by God that death must take place for sinful man to have fellowship with a Holy God there needed to be an eternal sacrifice in order to make man perfect like God (Gen 2:17;3:15,20-21;4:4,5; Heb 9:22-28; Matt 5:48; 1 John 3:2). It's only by Jesus death are we united with God and are a new creation in Christ (Gal 6:14). This would not be possible apart from Jesus death, therefore by removing the flesh upon the cross the sin of man was eternally removed (Heb 10:20; Col 2:11-15; 2 Cor 5:19,21). This made possible peace between a Holy God and sinful man in the person of Jesus the Christ who alone is excepted by God. Jesus said unless a seed fall into the earth and die it cannot multiply (John 12:24).
    If Israel would have received their Messiah there still needed to be the death of a perfect sacrifice for sinful man, one without blemish being perfect and eternal which God Himself could have only provided in the person of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Christ.

    Have A Wonderful Lord's Day:)

    alvin:)

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  15. Thank you both Ken and Alvin for your good thoughts.

    Ken, I agree with what you said regarding fellowship. We are constantly sinning even when we aren't aware of it. I think that's why it says.... "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."*
    Once we confess known sin we keep right on enjoying perfect fellowship with our Savior. AWESOME~!!!

    Both of you have given me good thoughts to think on. Thanks for that~!!!

    Enjoy the Lord each day because He is enjoying you!!!

    In Jesus love,
    Diane
    :-)

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  16. In the recent Newsletter of Grace in Focus you have written a "missionary journey" on Repentance. In there at the bottom of the article you have compared your thinking with Zane Hodges' thinking on what repentance is...I have always been taught that it was "a change of mind"/"a change of direction"...one of the same....I have been part & believe with the Grace Movement...I have known Bob Wilkin & other doctrinal pastors for many years...in fact we have had some pastor conferences right here in Omaha. But I would like you to clarify what you mean by "change your mind"...that is where the concerns lie. Even after we become a born again Christian by exercizing Acts 16:31...we sin...nothing really changes as far as that goes. But maybe you will clarify those points for me....thanks so much...I will give you my e- mail address right here in the blog...I did not find on the "blog" where you could be contacted...sorry.....

    Steve Leeder
    thinkbema@hotmail.com
    19usa47@gmail.com

    P.S. I am not sure what the "comment as" means what it requires...so please forgive me if I answered with something I should of not added.

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  17. Hi Steve,

    I will have to try to add an email address in my profile for anyone who wants to contact me that way. Blogging is a new thing for me, so I'll have to figure out how to do that. But I'll write back to you as soon as I can and clarify what I'm talking about. Thanks for asking.

    Ken

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